About Judas Messages

A forum for general discussion of all things relating to the messages received by James Padgett and subsequent mediums, and which are hosted on this site.
Kris
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Re: About Judas Messages

Postby Kris » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:45 pm

Hello Geoff;

It is what is surprising when I took notice that the messages published, in "True Gospel Revealed Anew by Jesus" are not following the date order. Dr Stone had to really reflect a lot I suppose to choose the right order. If I would have to do this job, I would have just choose to follow the date order !!!

Dr Samuel had to first get to know all the messages before to choose the publication order. It must have been a difficult choice to make.

All the best.

Kris

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Geoff
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Re: About Judas Messages

Postby Geoff » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:32 am

Dear Kris,

I used to think that, but in fact I think Dr Stone made the right choice. He probably made the choice because he did not have the money to publish them all, and if you look at the sequence of publication it is:

Volume I - 1941
Volume 2 - 1950 we think
Volume 3 - 1969
Volume 4 - 1972

Dr. Stone was apparently so short of funds that his compensation from an accident was used to print Volume I. All of this meant that Volume I is by far the best volume, and they get ever less important from a perspective of the theological value of the information. Now I have published a sequential date ordered volume. It is huge and expensive, and unless one could use a publisher with technology used for printing bibles (or the Urantia Book) you cant reduce the size by using very thin paper, and all these approaches involve large sums of money, and big volumes of books. Which we have never had.

My second point is I have interacted with people who only read these sequential books, and many of them fail to get the key theological ideas, because the messages are so spread out. And that is my biggest concern.

hugs
Geoff
Love commands the universe. Man only resorts to control when love is missing.

Kris
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Re: About Judas Messages

Postby Kris » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:10 am

Hi Geoff;

I used to think that, but in fact I think Dr Stone made the right choice. He probably made the choice because he did not have the money to publish them all.


I didn't critize Dr Stone's Choice. I just wanted to express that it would have been easier for Dr Stone to start plublishing, for example, all James Padgett's messages received in 1914. And the next time the messages published in 1915 and so on.

But my thinking is about some one who has the funds to publish all messages so he can planify their publication. In the case of Dr Stone, he could certainly not make a publishing plan for years in advance. Having a limited amount of monney, and not knowing when he would be able to publish a second volume, he justs decided, according his reading experience of all messages, to make a selection of the most important ones. But, of course, he had to really think how to make this selection and this probably was a very hard job.

Volume I is by far the best volume, and they get ever less important from a perspective of the theological value of the information.


Beside "the theological value of the information", what is the value of this first volume ?

My second point is I have interacted with people who only read these sequential books, and many of them fail to get the key theological ideas, because the messages are so spread out.


Effectively, it is quite difficult to get an overall understanding when the messages are so scattered.

Samuels was not in my view as good a medium as Padgett nor for that matter as good as HR.


In which way ?

I would recommend you at least read Volume I


Ok. I started. So far, as I am jus begining to read it, I really appreciated the long introduction of Dr Samuel regarding the true mission of Jesus and, course, all the testimonies fom Dr Stone, James and Helen Padgett. We really learn a lot in understanding all the difficulties encountered by James Padgett. He never was a super holy man but nevertheless ha has been fullfilling a very great job.

All the best.

Thanks again for all your answers.

Kris

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Geoff
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Re: About Judas Messages

Postby Geoff » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:43 am

Hi Kris,

Beside "the theological value of the information", what is the value of this first volume ?


Well thats it. It takes the most important spiritual concepts and makes them very well. Later on the volumes contain duplicates. In other words they repeated messages. Its clear this was not intentional, in short they did not track what they had published. Some times they even repeated the same message in the very same volume. This got progressively worse, and if you're able to leave out the duplicates you could almost do without one volume. Now this work was not all done by Dr. Stone. Basically he did the first two volumes. Not sure how much input he had in the third volume, but it is rather poor. That is with errors and so forth. You may also not know that in the "old days" you had lead plates created one per page. It was extremely labour intensive and expensive. Then you had to buy a lot of books, like probably several thousand.

Dr Samuels was not a good medium because he could not set aside his Jewish perspective and beliefs and this strongly colours most of his work. He is however a very interesting medium, and when he sticks to interpreting the Old Testament I think he is extremely good. When he tries to define what the "modern" church should do, he is on very thin ice, and falls through rather often. Especially in trying to recommend the "holy days".

hugs
Geoff
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Kris
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Re: About Judas Messages

Postby Kris » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:00 am

Hi Geoff;

Later on the volumes contain duplicates. In other words they repeated messages. Its clear this was not intentional, in short they did not track what they had published.


It must not have been easy for Dr Stone to undertake this fabulous work of publishing James Padgett's messages. It is too bad that somes messages are duplicate particularly if this happens in the same volume because it is a not nessary extra work. But anyway, I hope all or most of James Padgett's messages got published. If I understand you well, you mean that the most important messages were published in the first volume and éventually in the second volume. Beside this, I am most curious to undestrand how peoples came to know about James Padgett's Messages. Dr Stone invested quite some money in publishing those messages not knowing how peoples could get to know them. So my question is how could Dr Stone make "advertisement" about this publication ? Was it from friend to friends (In french we say " de bouche à oreille" !!!) ? Did Dr Stone or close friends spoke about those messages in some Christian circles ?

In our days, various publications can get support from the web. But in 1941, in a period where peoples have their mind occupied with the word war II it must have been quite difficult to let those messages known ? So I am really wondering how peoples came to know about them ?

Anyway, I really appreciated to read about Dr Stone's Testimony in "True Gospel Revealed Anew by Jesus". I was really impressed to discover how everything came to place to help James Padgett and even how James Padgett himself started his fabulous work. It looks it is by "accident", because of Helen's passing that the becale an extraordinary medium for God's purpose. But, behind, there muts have been a lot of invisible work done to guide James Padgett. Everything came to place in the right time and, however, all or most of Celestial Spirits, feel quite suprised about Jesus' selection of James Padgett. It is just amazing and this goes beyond my understanding !!!

Regarding Dr Samuel, I am really thankful for having shared his understanding of Jesus True Mission and all his chanelling of Jesus through his Revelations an Sermons.

All the best.

Kris

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Re: About Judas Messages

Postby Arie » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:41 am

Dear Kris,

I think we all agree about the enormous contributions to God's Truth all these men have made. And I'm sure Geoff in no way intends to devaluate any of them or anything of their work. As you suggested yourself, we live in very different times with all our modern means of communication and dissemination of material and back then possibilities were quite restricted.

I well remember how I felt when I "stumbled into" the Padgett Messages and the Samuels-channelings. I was amazed, flabbergasted, inspired, overwhelmed, impressed and happy as could be to have found what I soon perceived to be GREAT TRUTHS. But I also had to "learn" and acknowledge that nothing stays the way it is. The world just keeps evolving and the Angels keep working with us, also after Samuels and also after HR, for that matter. I do realise that there are people within the Divine Love Movement that have different views on all the channelings that have been received during the last 40 odd years, but for me it was and is reassuring and inspiring to know that God never stops talking to us and His Angels are more "at it" than ever before!

So don't worry too much about the past. Read everything there is to read with an open mind and... a prayerful approach! That last aspect, prayer, is never to be neglected. With all the texts we have at our disposal, all the discussions taking place, all the exchanges on forums and live during retreats: in the end your own, very personal connection with the Divine, your very private relationship with Father is what really counts.

Enjoy!!

Hugs
Arie

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Geoff
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Re: About Judas Messages

Postby Geoff » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:33 pm

Kris wrote:It must not have been easy for Dr Stone to undertake this fabulous work of publishing James Padgett's messages. It is too bad that somes messages are duplicate particularly if this happens in the same volume because it is a not nessary extra work. But anyway, I hope all or most of James Padgett's messages got published. If I understand you well, you mean that the most important messages were published in the first volume and éventually in the second volume. Beside this, I am most curious to undestrand how peoples came to know about James Padgett's Messages. Dr Stone invested quite some money in publishing those messages not knowing how peoples could get to know them. So my question is how could Dr Stone make "advertisement" about this publication ? Was it from friend to friends (In french we say " de bouche à oreille" !!!) ? Did Dr Stone or close friends spoke about those messages in some Christian circles ?


Hi Kris,

We don't know a lot about what Dr Stone did to share the messages. He did place them in US libraries, and even today on the US interlibrary loan you can find and "borrow" the 1941 original Volume I. He did meet people and take up a conversation and that brought some results. You may be unaware that Houdini led a very powerful public movement against mediums at that time, especially in the US. They really disparaged mediums.

I think things were going quite well, if slowly by the time Rev John Paul came into the movement. But he was a strange character. He seemed to avoid inter-personal stuff, but was a good correspondent. So he did manage to get a mention of the P Messages for example in a book by Rod Steiger. But he pretty much alienated those who were following the messages because of his apparent difficulty in face to face interaction. So this set a downward spiral, that only recovered with Rev Jocelyn Harleston and Dr Dave Lampron. Now she was a powerhouse, even as she also had her blind spots. And she caused the movement to split, something they could ill afford. There are lessons here for all of us, and our angels are raising these things even right now, telling us to be less critical, and more accepting of diversity. Its an important message. One of the weaknesses is that very few of us are real face to face "missionaries". Bishop Brian tells me over and over again, you have to talk to people and look them in the eye. But most of us hide on computers. Yes we have some impact across the world, but we don't build communities in single locations. But the folks in Canada did that, which is why we now try hard to get Circles of Light going. This is the future.

hugs
Geoff
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Kris
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Re: About Judas Messages

Postby Kris » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:35 am

Hi Geoff;

I understand that the first peoples who came to know and understand James Padgett's messages had all a very strong caracter and it must have been difficult to get along with them. It's often loke this with pioneers. I hope you can just write down the testimonies of earliest members still alive. And may be, some day, Dr Stone will be revealing his earlier days. It is interesting to know that Canada, and particularly Vancouver aerea, is taking the leadership of the mouvement.

Yes it is true that we have the tendancy to hide behind a computer instead to meet peoples face to face. But in the same time, we are living in a world in which computers are taking a very important place. And, step by step, through the web and paper editions, the messages are spreading.

Talking with friends and peoples who are a little bit open minded will surely help. Celestial spirits will surely also help a lot on the base of the various efforts.

God blesses you and your efforts. You web site is indiscutably a powerful tool. Is your son, who is well aware about computers, ready to help you to spread the messages ?

Kris

Kris
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Re: About Judas Messages

Postby Kris » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:55 am

Hi Geoff;

I am coming again to you to get a better understanding of a sentence taken from Judas' message helping others.

I am quoting Judas :

You understand me a little, not entirely, but this does not matter. But you do understand that what I have exposed is the basis of a law: advanced spirits always have to help their less fortunate companions. This does not happen through force or obligation, but is the effect of distancing and of simultaneous purification of their natural love. They can no longer feel hate, neither can they feel hate against their companions on their own level or on a superior level. How could you hate kind people?

I am surprised about it. How could adanced spirits could feel hate towards others peoples ? Of course, advanced spirits can't feel hate otherwise they would not be advanced spirits !!! Of course, in some way I can understand but in the other way something is littlle bit disturbing me. Sorry for it.

All the best.

Kris

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Geoff
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Re: About Judas Messages

Postby Geoff » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:58 am

Hi Kris,

He is not talking about "advanced" spirits feeling hate in your quote, he is referring to the lower spirits. Earlier in that piece he is actually talking about the lowest part of the First Sphere. I would guess "hate" probably disappears in the First Sphere, but you could perhaps have "dislike" or "mistrust" in the Second, but by the Third I would think its all gone. Could even happen sooner.

If you have some soul development, you will no longer feel hate, but at the beginning you will feel pity for him. This pity will become compassion, and in the course of the purification of your love, it will be love that you will feel. That, of course, takes time. However, the conversion of hate into pity or compassion happens pretty quickly through the effect of distance in space. There is no more close contact with your enemy, and with it, enmity ceases to exist, but not so the emotional bond. It loses its negative load, it may pass through indifference, but finally it will become love.


What he means by "distancing" is that the emotion that supported the dislike has gone.

Hugs
Geoff
Love commands the universe. Man only resorts to control when love is missing.


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