What did Jesus mean..

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Geoff
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What did Jesus mean..

Postby Geoff » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:10 pm

Jim said to me in an email:

But the message from Jesus regarding not one jot of the law will be changed, he says that ALL sin must be paid for in order for us to clean the slate and become pure enough to receive divine love. He doesn’t say a word about it applying to who you are now or then - just that ALL sin must be paid for, and that the law in this regard can’t be changed. That sounds like mandatory time in the hoosegow to me.

Could back up your interpretation of this with Law of Compensation with a dated message I could read?


(that in bold is not in any message)

and again in another email:

But then after that, the newly departed is moved to his prison room in the hell sphere to pay off his sins before he can receive the divine love and start moving up to better spheres, and where he is surrounded by spirits at his own level, with occasional visits by higher spirits he can’t hear because of some sort of wall that surrounds him and blocks out their encouraging words. And Jesus says in one of his messages that not one jot of the law can be changed regarding this paying off your sins business. Not very Course in Miracles, is it? And I used to think that wasn’t a feel-good book because it scared me so often with what I took to be the truth. ACIM’s got nothin' on the PMs.

Wow. This is the sort of stuff I left my church over. So what are we talking about here - doing time in a hell sphere for illegally downloading a Madonna album? Having one too many beers when my wife asked me not to? Overeating? Smoking? Visiting an internet porn site? Watching poorly-written TV shows? Not cleaning the house often enough?


Again that in bold is not in any message. The point of Divine Love is that it is available to ALL, no matter how bad they are. If it were not, it would be pointless.

What I can see here is Jim has retained some of his orthodox views on sin. Notably do sin, do the time. In the spirit world there is only now. You are what you are, NOW. If you change, you are changed. Our judicial system is not like that. You are forgiven when you have done the time. But in the spirit world you are let out when you have changed. So that means both that you can be there a very long time, or a short time. However I think that I should qualify this, because until the unpleasant memories are removed, even if you have moved into more light, you are still in a potentially unhappy situation. And unless you have the assistance of the Divine Love, getting rid of the memories can take a long time. I think some of this conversation started with the comment Jesus made about Pastor Russell:

The men who teach this false doctrine will have a great sin to atone for when they come to the spirit world and especially will the author of the book you were reading and not only for this false doctrine but for others which he teaches. He will find as soon as his breath leaves the body that there is a spirit world and that he is a living spirit and one who will find come to him the recollections of all his false teachings. I know that it may be said that he actually believes what he preaches but that fact will not alter the fact that his teachings are untrue and that he must pay the penalties of these false teachings until at last they shall no longer exist on earth.


Now I agree that certainly sounds at face value like Pastor Russell is condemned to the dark places until the last of his believers dies. But I am sure that is not true. What I see happening, is that pastor Russell, no matter how far he progresses, will always have a memory that haunts him, until the last of his followers dies. But he might still be a Celestial. Now I accept that there is potential here to see things in a contradictory way, because elsewhere it says the Divine Love can remove the memories. How does that align with what Jesus said above? Good question.

Also your definition of sin is very odd. Basically anything at variance with love is a flaw, and needs to be changed. But the hells cover a very wide "area" from very dark to just barely dim. So yes, if you overeat, thats not loving your body, but its hardly the same as molesting child or killing someone, is it. And not cleaning house I doubt fits anywhere, unless you are doing it to annoy wifey. Having a bit of a sharp tongue is not the same as getting into insane tempers and having the whole organisation scared of you. Comprehende? All have to change, but the Law of Attraction is what causes you to find yourself amongst the same sort of people. And the Law of Compensation works on your memories till you get the message it was not right, and when you start thinking that, you are getting ready to move. But it does seem that the memories could take a lot of time to dissolve, unless aided by DL.

Now here is a message from Jesus

If, as you say, he will seek that Divine Love, and pray to the Father in faith, and believe that the Father will bestow it upon him, he will receive it; and when he receives it in sufficient abundance all sin that he may have committed will be blotted out. No further will he have to pay the penalties of his deeds of sin and error. This is what I came principally to teach mankind. When I said, as you sow so shall you reap, I meant this to be the law of God as applied to the natural man as well as to everything else in nature; but that law is subject to be set aside so far as its operations on the souls of men are concerned, by the soul of man receiving in sufficient abundance, the Divine Love. And when the Great Love of the Father is sought and received by the soul of man in sufficient abundance, the law of compensation is made non-effective and the law of Love becomes supreme, and man is relieved from the penalties of his sins.


and another quote from Ann Rollins:

Forgiveness is that operation of the Divine Mind which relieves man of the penalties of his sins that he has committed, and permits him to turn from his evil thoughts and deeds, and seek the Love of the Father; and if he earnestly seeks, find the happiness which is waiting for him to obtain. It does not violate any law that God has established to prevent man from avoiding the penalties of his violations of the law of God controlling his conduct.

The law of compensation, that what a man sows that shall he reap, is not set aside, but in the particular case where a man becomes penitent and in all earnestness prays the Father to forgive him of his sins and make a new man of him, the operation of another and greater law is called into activity, and the old law of compensation is nullified, and, as it were, swallowed up in the power of this law of forgiveness and love. So you see there is no setting aside of any of God's laws. As in the physical world certain lesser laws are overcome by greater laws, so in the spirit world or in the operation of spiritual things, the greater laws must prevail over the lesser.

God's laws never change but the application of these laws to particular facts and conditions do seem to change, when two laws come into apparent conflict, and the lesser must give away to the greater.

The spiritual laws are just as fixed as are the physical laws that control the material universe; and no law having application to the same condition of facts, ever is different in its operation or in its effects.


What we learn are two things about the hells. One is where you are and the companions who may make it very unpleasant, and the second is the memories of your failings. Now you cannot escape the memories until the Law of Compensation is satisfied. Or as above, you have received enough Divine Love to have removed that from your soul, and then there is nothing for the Law of Compensation to work on. I think in my earlier discussion with you I have overlooked this aspect, and I think it is this aspect that is referred to as pay to the last farthing. But, as soon as the spirit has changed in regards to how he or she think, they will move to more light, and their companions will be proportionally nicer, BUT it is only when the memories are "gone" (this means the emotional content associated with the memory) that the spirit has "paid the price" for their errors.

Anyway that is my view, and maybe I am wrong. Certainly I can see some things that don't tie in nicely. Well talking to James cleared things up. He mentioned Martin Luther.

Martin Luther wrote:I am a spirit in love with the efforts that you and your band are making to help the unfortunates who come to you with such pitying tales of suffering and darkness, and ask for help. I was once, when on earth, a man who suffered much because of my spiritual darkness, and not until late in life did I find the way to my Father's Love through prayer and faith - and even then I had many erroneous beliefs caused by the interpretations of the Bible then obtaining in the church of which I was a member - but since coming to the spirit land I have learned the truth, and have gotten rid of any old erroneous beliefs; and thank God, I am in the way that leads to life everlasting. I was a teacher when on earth of what I thought were Bible truths, and I know that some good resulted from my teachings, although they were mixed with errors - but I have met many spirits of men who listened to my teachings, and believed many things that I taught. So you see, that even if the churches do teach many false doctrines in their creeds, yet mixed with these false doctrines are many truths, and these truths often find lodgment in the hearts of the hearers, and result in their finding the Light and Love of the Father.

I am still teaching mortals whenever it is possible to do. But I find that my task is a difficult one, because there are so few mediums who are capable of receiving the truths of the higher things of life, and the impressions that I make on mortals by the exercise of suggestions are not very encouraging to them or to me. Sometimes the impressions are received and understood but very often they have no effect.


Now in this message Martin Luther tells that he is a Celestial. Yet he has many folks following his erroneous teachings. So it is the case, as I suspected, that the Law of Compensation perhaps still nags at him, but its not overwhelming. I think that the message that started all this, that one from Jesus (about Pastor Russell) in January 1916 is probably a poor message, being one of the early ones when Padgett was not very far into the new way of looking at things.

hugs
Geoff
Love commands the universe. Man only resorts to control when love is missing.

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