Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 2 The Judgement Hall

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Amanda Stracey
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Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 2 The Judgement Hall

Postby Amanda Stracey » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:55 am

This chapter seems to be so full of information it was hard for me to work out whether and where to direct the conversation, so I decided to make a list of all the subjects/themes I felt were covered and have only commented on those areas that particularly interested me:

1. Time in the Spirit World - seems to be more hard to discern than on earth due to the absence of our normal daily rhythms, daytime and night and the periods of high and low energy that accompany them.

2. Fear of Death - All my life I have had a great fear of death and so this passage is comforting to me. Death truly does not appear to be the end but the beginning of a new life, but we enter it aware now of our own soul condition. Clearly Fred experiences a great longing/desire to share this truth with people left on earth, to spare their suffering and there is his impassioned prayer to God to teach the truth he has already learned - that there is nothing to be feared in the process. The transition for him was rapid and pain free and he feels where he is a place of love and happiness. Fred's attitude reminds me of this verse from the bible in Luke 14 when Jesus says to the pharisees who were criticising his disciples who were crying out “Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!” “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out." If anyone follows my posts on facebbok, I get this "child-like" urge to share what I've learned quite often. Fred could feel where he was evidence of God's eternal love and care for us, in contrast to the religious teachings of God's wrath and retribution around at the time. Again a personal issue for me is this teaching I have come up against of a wrathful God. It has been explained to me both that God's anger is righteous and therefore not to be feared, also that when the Bible describes God as angry it is really talking about the consequences of our own sinful behaviour...this just doesn't sit well with me. How can God be angry and love us at the same time?

3. Judgement - Fred is obviously waiting for some sort of judgement to happen - the sorting of the wheat from the chaff and the sheep from the goats. Helen tells him that he has already passed the Judgement Hall by passing through the Mists and that the dress he is wearing is the verdict of the life he lived - his soul condition, which must have been pretty good to have passed to where he currently is. He also discovers that "heaven is quite as much a condition of the soul as a locality, and true friendship is a great factor in completing that condition". I'm going to think about this over the course of the week as it feels like a very important point and I one abo want to explore further. I suppose it takes me back to the two great commandments, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

4. Purpose of the Earth Life - I felt I learned a little more about it's purpose as a preparation for the spiritual life and errors that we accummulated in our souls while on earth have to be uprooted.

This is Part One but thought I would post it to start the discussion.

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Geoff
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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 2 The Judgement Hal

Postby Geoff » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:39 pm

Amanda Stracey wrote:1. Time in the Spirit World - seems to be more hard to discern than on earth due to the absence of our normal daily rhythms, daytime and night and the periods of high and low energy that accompany them.


Indeed. Its very curious. My own "limited" understanding is that as we advance to higher and higher spheres, we have "less and less" time. From other sources we have been told time is an input to material universes, not a result. That itself is hard to fathom. However, an oddity in this, is that spirits like us here to stick to a regular schedule. That seems a contradiction? If you want to get messages, they like you to sit at the same time every day.

There are many cases where a spirit has commented that they seem to have had weeks and weeks of "experience" in spirit, yet less time has elapsed on earth. The converse is true it seems of earth-bound entities. Many a time they are told they have been 40 years in the Earth Plane, and they cannot believe that it is so.

love,
Geoff
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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 2 The Judgement Hal

Postby Geoff » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:45 pm

Amanda Stracey wrote:2. Fear of Death - All my life I have had a great fear of death and so this passage is comforting to me. Death truly does not appear to be the end but the beginning of a new life, but we enter it aware now of our own soul condition. Clearly Fred experiences a great longing/desire to share this truth with people left on earth, to spare their suffering and there is his impassioned prayer to God to teach the truth he has already learned - that there is nothing to be feared in the process. The transition for him was rapid and pain free and he feels where he is a place of love and happiness. Fred's attitude reminds me of this verse from the bible in Luke 14 when Jesus says to the pharisees who were criticising his disciples who were crying out “Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!” “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out." If anyone follows my posts on facebook, I get this "child-like" urge to share what I've learned quite often. Fred could feel where he was evidence of God's eternal love and care for us, in contrast to the religious teachings of God's wrath and retribution around at the time. Again a personal issue for me is this teaching I have come up against of a wrathful God. It has been explained to me both that God's anger is righteous and therefore not to be feared, also that when the Bible describes God as angry it is really talking about the consequences of our own sinful behaviour...this just doesn't sit well with me. How can God be angry and love us at the same time?


Aah. Well this is the beauty of investigating the spirit world. You do end up losing fear of death. Some people even get a longing to "pass over" which is understandable, but not wise, because we are here to achieve things while we can. It may be a very long time before we experience a material world again. In fact, we do not actually know that we will. I simply surmise that it may happen. And I am certainly not thinking reincarnation, as I dont believe in that.

Yes the wrathful God. To my way of thinking, Christianity would be alive and growing if they had never tried to merge the OT and the NT. But their theological pathway was based on using the OT to prove that Jesus was all they claim. And they could not then side-step the truly sad beliefs of olden times. While Jesus certainly learnt much from the OT, which we can read in the Samuel's messages, he was wise enough to step forward with a beautiful new simple message. Father is LOVE.

love,
Geoff
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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 2 The Judgement Hal

Postby Geoff » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:07 pm

Amanda Stracey wrote:3. Judgement - Fred is obviously waiting for some sort of judgement to happen - the sorting of the wheat from the chaff and the sheep from the goats. Helen tells him that he has already passed the Judgement Hall by passing through the Mists and that the dress he is wearing is the verdict of the life he lived - his soul condition, which must have been pretty good to have passed to where he currently is. He also discovers that "heaven is quite as much a condition of the soul as a locality, and true friendship is a great factor in completing that condition". I'm going to think about this over the course of the week as it feels like a very important point and I one abo want to explore further. I suppose it takes me back to the two great commandments, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."


Yes one is left with the notion in this book that there is a judgement hall or process. I believe that is probably false. I say probably, because the Urantia Book says much the same. That your life is reviewed by "The Ancients of Days" and generally we pass, only because they are so lenient. But that a small number do not pass through. Nothing like that in Padgett, and we do know some awful characters have passed through. We also do know that our souls are tarnished the moment we sin, and that spirits can see the soul condition of living mortals. So there is no sudden application of karma, if I put it that way, but I guess there could be a review to see who makes it? I will quote the Urantia Book here, mostly because it introduces another fascinating subject: "Sleeping Survivors"

I will have to get back to this, cant find it at this time. I have tried, but cannot find what I was looking for, which was a succinct statement that there are three possible outcomes to death: 1. non-survival, 2. becoming a sleeping-survivor and 3. Normal awakening in the Spirit Spheres.


love,
Geoff
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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 2 The Judgement Hal

Postby Geoff » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:11 am

Amanda Stracey wrote:4. Purpose of the Earth Life - I felt I learned a little more about it's purpose as a preparation for the spiritual life and errors that we accummulated in our souls while on earth have to be uprooted.


Well the P Messages tell us our "purpose" is complete on incarnation. Because at that point, you have "individualised". In some way, un-incarnated souls are "one with God" and not "individual" Tricky stuff. After achieving that, everything else is a bonus, or a problem. This world is specifically adapted to delay the application of certain spiritual laws regarding creation and also compensation. So we don't readily observe that we are creators, and we don't immediately suffer the consequences. These do make it harder to discern Truth, but also cause us to mix more thoroughly than occurs on the Spirit Worlds where the laws keep like with like. I have long thought that its absolutely deliberate that we cannot in any way discern the presence of God. All we can do, is discern His Love.

love,
Geoff
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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 2 The Judgement Hal

Postby William » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:33 am

Hi amanda, I got a chance to read the 2nd chapter again today while waiting for kids at Ballet. It is great to read your comments.
The one that stood out for me is
" Faith without works is dead"
There is a lot in that simple line. I have read this book twice before and not noticed it.

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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 2 The Judgement Hal

Postby Joseph B » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:57 pm

Hi Amanda ... I am enjoying your writings, yours too Geoff.

This morning I woke remembering a very real dream. Succinctly, I was standing with others around a large round table. We were in conversation about God, sort of like we are doing here. In this dream I said words like this: "God is not angry; there is no anger in God."

Immediately after I said this the attitude of other people around the table turned very angry and hostile ... "God is angry!" they shouted at me.

"No," I replied, "God is love."

Then I woke.

I had the sense that these were very devote people in respective churches. One can talk about the wrath and anger of God and not elicit such a response in others. But when a person is filled with love - the Divine Love - the very words spoken have a tonal quality that reflects the reality of the words spoken; the very words "God is love" contain the quality of that truth. Though not spoken in judgment, but in love, nonetheless, in some who hear this it brings the response of fear and anger.

Does this seem possible?

With love,

Joseph

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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 2 The Judgement Hal

Postby Doles » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:35 pm

Hi all,
I wasn't going to post anything (I'm still soaking all this in) until I read Joseph's message. It's funny you had this dream...because I had a somewhat close to similar experience last night. This lady who's preaching a revival they have at my church was talking about spiritualism. She was saying how it's all about the devil, or in this case the devils, turning into different people to tell us stuff that aren't real since the dead couldn't possibly do that. And the really funny thing is, I don't get mad by this anymore. The only thing I was thinking about was, how incredibly powerful this devil must be and how incredibly passive God must be to just stand by and let the devils bring all these facts to lead the people astray. I may not be making much sense, but as much as I find it frustrating I also find it beautiful or perhaps intriguing.

Thx,
Doles
Blessings To All!

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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 2 The Judgement Hal

Postby Amanda Stracey » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:11 am

I don't know if anyone else is following along with Mary's book group but they are making some very interesting points and the video for the second presentation is up. A few things I really liked that they picked up on that I hadn't got were Fred's delight to be where he was - believing that wherever he might eventually go to once judged, that when he meets Helen again he is so happy he believes himself to be in heaven. Also they discuss Fred's qualities that we might want to develop - his humility, his patience, his childlike questionning and inquiring mind and his trust in the people around him. For me it shows how he must have pretty miserable in his earthly life and so appreciates so much more the loving atmosphere, the true friendship and guidance being offered to him in the spirit world. JUst thinking that he doesn't appear to be angry that he has died or resentful.....

My last comments are about the final discussion about the man from the workhouse.....“You once gave your dinner to a hungry lad.” said Omra.
“You gave a pair of boots, you could badly spare, to a wandering tramp; you gave your
glasses to a poor old woman who could not see to read, and left yourself in the same
condition; you sat beside an old comrade when he was ill, and nursed him back to health;
you have been patient in your enforced poverty, and encouraged others to hope for the best
and be contented. – Have you not?”
“Well, yes I did sit beside old Bill, a bit; but he’d ‘a’ done the same for me, if I’d’ a’ wanted
it. I don’t know much about the rest.”

One of the important facts that the group didn't explore fully was that the workhouse was a place for really destitute people so the poor man who gave away his stuff was really living a life of extreme hardship himself.. It's a really difficult lesson for me, have I ever given something that I really needed myself or have I only given what I could afford to give and would not miss.It reminds me of this bible story

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV.


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