Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 4 The Mount of God

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Amanda Stracey
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Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 4 The Mount of God

Postby Amanda Stracey » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:51 pm

Apologies for the delay in posting anything recently but I have been trying to coincide with Mary's book group and have been away on leave. Again I'm probably just going to comment on anything that interested me or caught my notice so please feel free to share any thoughts or feelings you've had on stuff I've noticed or things that I've completely passed over.


My initial reaction again is confirmation that Fred is so inquisitive and not afraid to ask questions - and is lucky enough to receive answers with as much truth as his various teachers are able to give. In this chapter Eusemos is the main teacher.

The Meeting Place - Fred reflects on where he has come from and where he is now and feels that where he is in better in every respect than his earth life - beyond what he was able to imagine when he was on earth. I'm not sure if these reception areas are similer to a high 1st sphere condition or higher and Fred finds them so amazing and can feel God's handiwork all around him because they are such a contrast to where he ahs been. Further on in the Chapter Eusemos says that the reception areas are in a good condition to encourage people going to lower places that there are other higher places to hope for. It would be interesting to hear any other views on this.

The Meetings - for me this demonstrated Fred's unselfish nature that he is able to take such joy in other's good fortune even when he has such a great longing himself to be reunited with his mother. For me, that's probably a good indicator of someone's soul condition or level of love - the amount of joy they experience when somehting good happens to someone else or the opposite emotions of jealousy and sadness when someone else is getting something they themselves really want. For me it's probably a mixture of the two, I know how I should behave and I know how I really feel.

Just wanted to interject a few truths which are mentioned on the first page which are easy to skip over......Fred says "I for the first time fully comprehended the fact that death lay out of sight behind us."...What we think we know I'm going to call it head-knowledge and what we actually know in our hearts/souls are two different things. To give an example, when one of my relatives died who was elderley and frail and had been suffering, my head said it was great that they were free of their agony but my heart did not agree. I was very surprised to experience anger that they had to die and suffer and grief and remorse at the hard life they had led and the way I had treated them and how they had treated me. I wonder if we've all had the same experiences? Secondly Fred says "I myself still remained the same".....while these appear to be simple words, in my church's teachings there is a belief that if we believe we have been saved by Jesus' blood and live a redeemed life, that we will enter into glory with him at some point. I don't think that leaves much room for Fred's experience that essentially his soul nature was unchanged and as we see as the the story unfolds that we have each co-created a place fit for our condition. For me that's a bit of a shock as I'm expecting all my sin,badness and errror to be washed away somehow and to be transformed to a new creation.

The Meetings seem to be equally joyful for the newly arrived and people who had been around longer.

The woman - now we come to the centrepiece of the chapter for me, the happy meeting of brother and sister and the unhappy condition of their mother (I did not automatically get these relationships.) I thought that the woman was not necessarily related to the boy and girl but had done something really bad to them, like murdering them or ill-treating them really badly. It was a bit of a shock to hear in Mary's book group that they believed she was "only" their mother .......bit of a confronting idea for me to think that we will be faced with all the consequences of bad parenting and I believe it does go on to say the consequences of our opportunities as parents to engage with our own sin and repentance before even having children. I like the idea raised in the book group that the woman was so terrified because she did not want to face up to the enormity of what she had done to her children and that even in the meeting place God was giving her the opportunity to start experiencing some of her pain, but she doesn't take it. Again it would be interesting to here other's perceptions of what truth about this world Fred is trying to demonstrate to us in describing this encounter and mentioning other's who shrank from the people they had harmed.

It did make me feel really uncomfortable that no-one was willing to help her at that point. I couldn't quite get that at first. It seems a bit uncaring to me to not help someone who is obviously so afraid......the only conclusion I've come to is that we can't be helped if we have no desire to face the truth of what we have done, if we have no longing to be a better person....like throwing pearls before swine.

Taking the wrong road - really interesting explanantion by Eusemos of why the woman cannot bear the increased happiness, joy and peace on the path she took and so had to take the lower path. I'm not going to comment too much on that as I'd be more interested to hear other views. Do you feel that this is really loving? How do you feel about the whole issue of pain being used as an indicator that we are out of harmony with God's laws or truth? Do you wish God would or should turn a blind eye to "inconsequential" sin? How do you feel about paying for every last farthing, particularly if you feel someone else was to blame for your behaviour or you are not the only guilty party? Do you long for another way and want to avoid it altogether? Does it feel like punishment rather than correction to bring you to a higher state of love? Do you feel a desire and "incentive" to improve your condition? If you're like me you might want other people to be treated harshly for what thay have done to you and for yourself to be treated leniently!

Sorry to leave it there for the moment but dinner is ready!

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Geoff
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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 4 The Mount of God

Postby Geoff » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:50 am

Amanda Stracey wrote:My initial reaction again is confirmation that Fred is so inquisitive and not afraid to ask questions - and is lucky enough to receive answers with as much truth as his various teachers are able to give. In this chapter Eusemos is the main teacher.

As there are "teachers with varying degrees of truth, it is VERY curious why Fred warrants a bunch of "goodies". If you read "Letters from the Light" the fellow who transmitted that had a quite average teacher. To me this is a very big deal. How will I KNOW my teacher has the goods? In my case, I will insist on one who has "fused", and I will ask for some proof of that. Alternatively I will reach a point where my Indwelling Spirit is my only teacher.

Amanda Stracey wrote:The Meeting Place - Fred reflects on where he has come from and where he is now and feels that where he is in better in every respect than his earth life - beyond what he was able to imagine when he was on earth. I'm not sure if these reception areas are similar to a high 1st sphere condition or higher and Fred finds them so amazing and can feel God's handiwork all around him because they are such a contrast to where he has been. Further on in the Chapter Eusemos says that the reception areas are in a good condition to encourage people going to lower places that there are other higher places to hope for. It would be interesting to hear any other views on this.

Yes I think they probably are high first sphere. But I would not exclude the probability that there are a great many (which there are) and that some are "higher" than others. That said, we all arrive in Sphere one after death, no matter how advanced we are. It will only seem great relative to earth.

Amanda Stracey wrote:The Meetings - for me this demonstrated Fred's unselfish nature that he is able to take such joy in other's good fortune even when he has such a great longing himself to be reunited with his mother. For me, that's probably a good indicator of someone's soul condition or level of love - the amount of joy they experience when something good happens to someone else or the opposite emotions of jealousy and sadness when someone else is getting something they themselves really want. For me it's probably a mixture of the two, I know how I should behave and I know how I really feel.


Yes he is very given to caring for others.

Amanda Stracey wrote:Just wanted to interject a few truths which are mentioned on the first page which are easy to skip over......Fred says "I for the first time fully comprehended the fact that death lay out of sight behind us."...What we think we know I'm going to call it head-knowledge and what we actually know in our hearts/souls are two different things. To give an example, when one of my relatives died who was elderly and frail and had been suffering, my head said it was great that they were free of their agony but my heart did not agree. I was very surprised to experience anger that they had to die and suffer and grief and remorse at the hard life they had led and the way I had treated them and how they had treated me. I wonder if we've all had the same experiences? Secondly Fred says "I myself still remained the same".....while these appear to be simple words, in my church's teachings there is a belief that if we believe we have been saved by Jesus' blood and live a redeemed life, that we will enter into glory with him at some point. I don't think that leaves much room for Fred's experience that essentially his soul nature was unchanged and as we see as the the story unfolds that we have each co-created a place fit for our condition. For me that's a bit of a shock as I'm expecting all my sin,badness and error to be washed away somehow and to be transformed to a new creation.


Hmm. Of course this is the very reason the churches don't want you reading this stuff. But It also tells me you are not being encouraged to read Padgett, nor being taught the deep spiritual truths that reside there. First is of course that we are exactly the same post death as prior. But the other, is much more important. And that is the the Divine Love is capable of removing the errors from your soul, such that the Law of Compensation has nothing to act on. So, that is how you can avoid the hells. See this summary You may find that a useful "quick" summary. I suppose because AJ focuses on the Natural Love path pretty much all the time - which is releasing all these emotions - he does not bother to tell you none of that improves the soul such that the Law of Compensation has NOTHING to act on. Instead he likes to teach that his way is faster, yet if it means people don't bother to pray for Divine Love, he is actually retarding their spiritual growth.

Amanda Stracey wrote:The woman - now we come to the centrepiece of the chapter for me, the happy meeting of brother and sister and the unhappy condition of their mother (I did not automatically get these relationships.) I thought that the woman was not necessarily related to the boy and girl but had done something really bad to them, like murdering them or ill-treating them really badly. It was a bit of a shock to hear in Mary's book group that they believed she was "only" their mother .......bit of a confronting idea for me to think that we will be faced with all the consequences of bad parenting and I believe it does go on to say the consequences of our opportunities as parents to engage with our own sin and repentance before even having children. I like the idea raised in the book group that the woman was so terrified because she did not want to face up to the enormity of what she had done to her children and that even in the meeting place God was giving her the opportunity to start experiencing some of her pain, but she doesn't take it. Again it would be interesting to here other's perceptions of what truth about this world Fred is trying to demonstrate to us in describing this encounter and mentioning other's who shrank from the people they had harmed.


Aah, yes, I had forgotten that. The sister was the more advanced in the sense of having been "over" longer, so it figures she would be the more loving and know how to act.

Amanda Stracey wrote:It did make me feel really uncomfortable that no-one was willing to help her at that point. I couldn't quite get that at first. It seems a bit uncaring to me to not help someone who is obviously so afraid......the only conclusion I've come to is that we can't be helped if we have no desire to face the truth of what we have done, if we have no longing to be a better person....like throwing pearls before swine.


These people who are spurned are really hopeless cases . All others get lots of help. And even in the hells, help is available, although not often sought. Each soul in the hells is capable of helping another soul that is there. And eventually they do.

Amanda Stracey wrote:Taking the wrong road - really interesting explanation by Eusemos of why the woman cannot bear the increased happiness, joy and peace on the path she took and so had to take the lower path. I'm not going to comment too much on that as I'd be more interested to hear other views. Do you feel that this is really loving? How do you feel about the whole issue of pain being used as an indicator that we are out of harmony with God's laws or truth? Do you wish God would or should turn a blind eye to "inconsequential" sin? How do you feel about paying for every last farthing, particularly if you feel someone else was to blame for your behaviour or you are not the only guilty party? Do you long for another way and want to avoid it altogether? Does it feel like punishment rather than correction to bring you to a higher state of love? Do you feel a desire and "incentive" to improve your condition? If you're like me you might want other people to be treated harshly for what thay have done to you and for yourself to be treated leniently!


Not loving? Actually the only place they feel in harmony, is in the lower dark places. Its loving for them to be there. They created themselves that way, and now that is where they are. It may ultimately prove "corrective", and that's how love comes in. The problem in this realm, is that we do not experience the results of our soul condition. No matter how much AJ tries to claim that we do. By the way the Bible states unequivocally that we will pay to the last farthing. It simply suits the churches to talk themselves out of that. I am 100% happy about it personally. Its the only thing that makes any sense, because its all about free will and who you create yourself to be. If you read Judas' tale he will tell you he was "glad" of the hidden and dark nature of the hells. Incidentally this very same condition prevents a spirit in the fourth from entering the fifth, and one in the fifth from entering into the sixth, and so on. Its fundamental to the Spirit Realms, and is actually the Law of Attraction in action.

love,
Geoff
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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 4 The Mount of God

Postby Amanda Stracey » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:53 pm

Not loving? Actually the only place they feel in harmony, is in the lower dark places. Its loving for them to be there. They created themselves that way, and now that is where they are. It may ultimately prove "corrective", and that's how love comes in. The problem in this realm, is that we do not experience the results of our soul condition. No matter how much AJ tries to claim that we do. By the way the Bible states unequivocally that we will pay to the last farthing. It simply suits the churches to talk themselves out of that. I am 100% happy about it personally. Its the only thing that makes any sense, because its all about free will and who you create yourself to be. If you read Judas' tale he will tell you he was "glad" of the hidden and dark nature of the hells. Incidentally this very same condition prevents a spirit in the fourth from entering the fifth, and one in the fifth from entering into the sixth, and so on. Its fundamental to the Spirit Realms, and is actually the Law of Attraction in action.


I'd like to hear more on why it is possible to not be aware of the degradation of our soul condition. Most people I know (including me) still blame the other person for the pain they are experiencing. I think either AJ or Mary in one of the discussions on the earlier chapters said that it is possible to "defer" our knowledge of our soul condition here but certainly not there. I think AJ then went on to say that a lot of the misery and pain people experience are actually Law of Compensation emotions.

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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 4 The Mount of God

Postby Geoff » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:52 pm

Amanda Stracey wrote:I'd like to hear more on why it is possible to not be aware of the degradation of our soul condition. Most people I know (including me) still blame the other person for the pain they are experiencing. I think either AJ or Mary in one of the discussions on the earlier chapters said that it is possible to "defer" our knowledge of our soul condition here but certainly not there. I think AJ then went on to say that a lot of the misery and pain people experience are actually Law of Compensation emotions.


Dear Amanda,

Actually I think this gets to the very heart of the differences between THIS realm, and the next. We already know we all have spirit bodies and souls plus our material body. However the soul condition is generally not that clear, simply because the spirit body is invisible to pretty much all of us here. But the spirit body shows the real you, and that is totally all there is, in the next realm. There would be isolated cases when someone "gives you the creeps", and that would probably be due to their poor soul condition. The reverse is equally true, as just sometimes folks you meet clearly are just wonderful souls. So, our soul condition is somewhat, maybe very much largely hidden, with only the real extremes being somewhat apparent. Why is this? I don't know, I have never come across a "reason" for it. I would surmise that its part of learning, its the way things are here. We are allowed to make mistakes here. Sure, you get soul=-based feedback of the fact that you have made an error, but even that feedback reduces, if you keep on with the same errors. We also do know that poor soul condition can affect your health, but we don't honestly know much about that either. Ironically this world has not much improved in 2000 years, yet we have managed to increase our lifespan, in the face of that. Its not spiritual growth that has done that, but "modern" medicine that attends to the physical and ignores the spiritual.

All of the misery and pain in the next Realm is caused by the Law of Compensation. However that Law does not come into effect here, the same way it does in the next. Yes there can be effects here, but again I have never heard anything explain what those might be, what the limits are, and why some people can live "charmed" material lives, and have poor soul condition, yet seemingly have no ill effects HERE.

Are you aware that the Law of Divine Love is a HIGHER law than the Law of Compensation, and by acquiring Divine Love you avoid the Law of Compensation, because the Divine Love removes from the soul that which the Law of Compensation acts on?

love,
Geoff
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Re: Through the Mists - R J Lees Chapter 4 The Mount of God

Postby Amanda Stracey » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:58 pm

Hi Geoff

Yes I am aware that the Law of Divine Love is higher than the Law of Compensation. Again very interesting about the soul condition of a person not being obvious or evident to the person. The information is all new to me so haven't had much time to reflect on that.

There was a discussion about the use of the word "penalty" to describe the effect of our unloving, immoral and unrepented acts have on the soul. I think the person who raised the issue had thoughts associated with that word about punishment which might be above and beyond the act in the first place...from memory there is quite a lot of talk in the Old and New Testaments about debts and debtors and for me at least the word debt does not carry as much "punishment" feelings with it as the word penalty does. It feels like something we have to pay back now or at a future date....which goes back to what Geoff is saying about not having to pay the debt right now, it can be deferred.

The next event for Fred is Eusemos taking him to higher dimensions, and Fred tries to convey the beauty of what he sees, how God has provided everything harmoniously for the enjoyment and pleasure of us all even before we get to heaven. He's please that the people who go to the hells are do not get to see these more beautiful places as it would be too unkind for them, too hard for them to bear when they are already going to have a lot to deal with.

Also Fred is surprised by two further things, first to learn that there are rulers there who have been appointed to run things (Eusemos points him to the Bible and how it confirms that there will be positions of authority) and second that people retain their ethnic origin in their spirit bodies.

My favourite part of the chapter is when Fred views all the people mingling in this higher sphere and has a sense that "each possessed some power to augment the happiness of his fellow, and that the society of all was necessary for joy to reach its full ideal." Amen to that.


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